For Jonathan Tuite, the founder of the influential San Francisco label The Flenser, the thrill of releasing music outside the mold has always been worth seeking. But as a label that got its start in the underground metal scene, reaching outside of the confines of the genre was a risky move, which ultimately paid off as the label is home to a diverse, exciting roster.
When a reporter caught up with Tuite over the phone, the two quickly realized how exchanging the courtesy of asking a simple question like “how are you?” can seem funny these days. Stable footing is a rare commodity. But in many ways, The Flenser’s supportive community, which has been with them for over a decade, stepped up to support the label in this uncertain time.
Below, Tuite discusses the evolution of the label, bay area metal, how Botanist revolutionized the hammered dulcimer in heavy music, maintaining personal relationships with artists on the label and much more.
How have things been lately with the label?
There’s been more of an interest in digital music, merch sales and digital sales than ever before, as opposed to record stores. People want to order directly from us. People want that connection and it’s been going that way for a long time, but it’s accelerated a lot since there are no record stores open.
That must feel humbling and surprising in a lot of ways?
What’s surprising is the interest in our classic releases really increased. Especially the Have A Nice Life stuff. [Interest has] always been really high for that, but it’s been ravenous! That’s what I’m hearing from other labels as well. I don’t have an answer for why that is. I don’t know if people have nostalgia for stuff or are taking a deep dive into edgier music for the first time. But it’s something that seems to be happening on a larger scale than just us.
They just released data saying that vinyl sales were up 30% last year.
It’s crazy!
Where I’m calling from currently is the room where I keep all of my records and that is something that I constantly think about. What records are missing on these shelves?
I’m the opposite. I’m thinking what records can I get rid of? There are so many records (laughs).
When did you get involved with releasing music? What was the first moment you realized that you wanted to get involved with that process?
That was over 10 years ago and I just finished college a little later than most people. I was in my late 20s and I didn’t really have any type of plan. I went down this rabbit hole with philosophy and a pre-legal thing. None of it seemed like what I actually wanted to do.
Instead, I was collecting a lot of records then. I had been in a band (Pidgin) that had a couple of releases and that was what resonated with me the most. It was a hobby to do in the meantime. I wanted to try and contribute to that world in some way. I was a guitarist, and I had some problems playing guitar from what I thought was a repetitive stress injury, but it turned out to be arthritis. It really kept me out of that world, but I still wanted to be involved.
Were there any labels that you looked up to as a young music fan?
Growing up? That’s a good question. I don’t think I thought of that until I started running a label. Around the time that I was thinking about starting The Flenser, there were a few local labels that interested me. The biggest being Tumult, which was one of the guys from Aquarius Records (Andee Connors) — a record store here that had a record-nerd culture that was very positive. They would send out this weekly newsletter and write reviews of every single release that came out that week. Everything was very positive, and I really liked that at the time, even though it was all really dark and weird music.
Then there was Nuclear War Now — a metal label in the east bay — was just getting going. I was very aware of what they were doing. They were more of an underground metal label. That was a big influence, just seeing how that worked since I knew a number of people who helped out with that label.
Growing up I was more interested in the bands and going to punk shows. The punk world is where I can from, even though The Flenser was seen as a metal label.
While I understand why someone would make that characterization of The Flenser as a metal label. If you look at the roster, a lot of these artists are very hard to define and that relates to the early spirit of punk.
That’s the goal. To have different sounding bands that all feel like they fit together and to take a lot of bands that seem slightly outside of the genre. There’s exceptions to that. But even the metal bands that I work with, they all tend to have something weird about them. I think it’s important when you’re releasing music to not release stuff that sounds too much like other music. That’s at least what I’m interested in. New music needs to sound somewhat different.
The Bay Area has such a rich history of metal and it’s also the birthplace of psychedelic music. Was it hard for The Flenser to carve out its own corner in that field?
Where I grew up, there was a local punk scene in the Mission District of San Francisco which was like the darker, weirder, more fucked up version of the Gillman scene that was going on in the East Bay. That’s a little bit of where I came from. But yeah, I did feel like I needed to be a metal label and I did need to pick a side. There was a tradition of San Francisco metal bands. Not just thrash metal, but also weirder stuff like the early black metal bands. Weakling, and those other bands that became important. I felt like there was something about the Bay Area that had that identity with it.
For a long time, I felt like I wanted to do stuff outside of metal but I couldn’t really do that because I didn’t think an audience would follow me as much. It also seemed somewhat intimidating to do music that wasn’t distributed through underground metal means. At the time early in the label, I was distributing by trading with other labels, doing small wholesale orders, selling on consignment to record stores. It was really the underground way of doing stuff that was associated with metal for me. I felt like I had to stick with that lane for a bit. But now, I don’t have a lane.
Was there a specific release that you feel really put The Flenser on the map?
There’s different phases of the label. Early on, the very first release I did was for this band called Palace of Worms which was this one-man black metal band. Aquarius took that on and the local big record store Amoeba Records took that on and they both sold a lot of copies directly to people. That was kind of a big deal. Then I did this Penopticon record, the vinyl version of Collapse. That sold pretty well at the time and that was pretty exciting. Still, those were pretty small numbers.
Later on, when I did the second Bosse-De-Nage record (II), that seemed to be a turning point for the label. Around the same time, I did the first Wreck and Reference release (Black Cassette) which was the first non-metal release. That was where it seemed like we reached a wider audience.
Was there a certain band that you saw live that changed your perception of what a metal band could be? I didn’t know that the hammered dulcimer was something I would want in a metal release until I heard Botanist. What is it like working with them in the beginning?
I’ve known Otrebor the guy behind the Botanist since the beginning. He’s been a part of the local landscape for a long time. I actually bought a record off of him on eBay many, many years ago and I put that all together. He sent me the first Botanist before it was released and I was like, “This is too weird” (laughs). He was like, “Do you want to release this?” and I was like, “I don’t know how people are going to react to this!”
It was so weird and so outside of anything I had heard. I was really into a lot of minimalistic experimental music at that time. It really reminded me of that. It almost reminded me of a lot of Steve Reich tape loop stuff. But yeah, it was very weird hearing that at first and hearing the lore behind the Botanist.
Have a Nice Life are a band that have such an inspiring underdog style story with releasing Deathconsciousness on their own and it blowing up organically online. It feels like they could be enormous any day now. What was it that drew The Flenser to that band?
I had communicated with Dan [Barrett] on and off for years. He had [his label] Enemies List Home Recordings that started at around the same time The Flenser did. So, we would talk every so often. There was a moment when listening to Deathconsiousness where I didn’t get it at first. I listened to it a couple of times and then one day I was working at this bar job and I was listening to it as I was setting up and it just hit me how amazing and strange that record is.
I ended up just asking them if they wanted me to reissue that record. That’s what started the relationship. The band took a month to get back to me and then he responded and said, “uh, yeah sure!” I figured they were blowing me off (laughs). What had happened was they had already finished this record The Unnatural World. He was like, “We just finished this other one and we don’t know what to do.” So we ended up releasing that and that was the first really big release The Flenser did. I had never really experienced anything like that.
With the preorders, people were like “Where’s my record?” two days later. I had to order all of these records and do another pressing.
They have this magnetic quality to them that is so undeniable even though their music can be difficult at times.
They’re like the ultimate everyman band in a way. Like you said, they made that record with almost no resources and it’s gone on to be this cult hit that finds a new audience every year. Tim [Macuga], who runs the band, is a school teacher and his students listen to it! Every year he has a student that goes up to him and asks him, “Are you really the guy from this culty internet band?” (laughs).
There is so much joy seeing a solo performer make as much noise as Thom Wasluck of Planning for Burial. What is it like receiving records from him? Are you amazed at what he’s able to create on his own?
Yeah, I am. Some of my favorite records are from him. Below The House is probably the record that I feel closest to in a way out of everything that I’ve released. It’s brilliant and it kind of crystalized everything that he’s been doing. I’m really close to Tom and we talk almost every day. There’s quite a relationship there too. It’s very friendly and it’s not a business-like relationship at all.
Is that generally how you approach artists on The Flenser?
I try! I work very hard at trying to have as much communication as I can with the bands. You can’t be everybody’s best friend, but I do feel like it’s helpful to talk to bands regularly especially on the phone around a release or when I sign them to build that relationship up. Because The Flenser is just me and I have one employee and a publicist. If I’m working with a band, I’m working with them closely. Very likely, a new band’s release is not going to make any money for a long time. So the relationship has to be a good one. There are only so many hours in the day and I want to have good relationships with bands and I want them to feel like they are listened to and heard and feel like they get as much attention as possible.
How has the label had to adapt to the current times?
The label has done pretty well through the pandemic. It’s been very hard for some bands without touring. In some cases, their day jobs have gone away also. It’s really dependent on the artist for what they’ve had to deal with. I still am in communication with everyone like I normally am. A lot of stuff is in process. A lot of things are moving slowly because people are occupied. It’s been a very hard time for people and I feel for that.
For some bands, it hasn’t been hard at all! I mean, besides the normal difficulties we’re all facing with social distancing. It’s a weird time and not a good time if you’re in a touring band.
This interview was edited for clarity.